Unto the Breach

More Playtesting

2010-04-29T21:30:00.001-07:00

So I played the BA list against IronFrontALex's CSM.

He had:
Kharn
Bile
8 PM, 2 Plasma
10 CSM, 1 Melta, IoCG, Rhino
2x9 CSM, Flamer, IoCG, Rhino
4x5 Lesser Daemons
2x2 Oblits
10 Havocs, 3 Autocannons, ML, IoCG

Dawn of War Annihilation.

Long story short,nothing happened until turn 3 when I opened a Rhino and charged a CSM squad, the PM, and 2 squads of lessers with the Libby and his Terms and the AMs. At that point, he pretty much gave up. I killed another Rhino, his havocs, and a squad of Oblits. He killed a Razorback and was about to wipe the AMs and their Priest when he conceded.

I was able to control Kharn's Rhino all game even though he dropped it on the table in DoW and went first. The one time when EArmor would have helped, he didn't have it, lol. Yet more proof that dedicated assault units need Raiders for CSM. =P

Playtesting...

2010-04-20T21:30:00.000-07:00

So I played a game with the BA list on Vassal.

Lysander
5 Ass Terms, Godhammer Raider
5 Ass Terms
5 Outflanking Scouts
4 MG/MM Tac squads, 2 in Rhinos, 2 in Pods
Typhoon

He fed me stuff piecemeil and I ate it up. He got 3 KPs (including a lucky lascannon shot that killed a Raider). I got 6 by the bottom of 3.

I retreated from midfield and turtled. He couldn't touch me.

Corbulo ended the game after turn 5 =)

ICB's Boston Brawl List

2010-04-20T12:18:00.000-07:00

OK, so since I am poor and have no money to finish my Guard army in time for the Boston Brawl, I'm going to be bringing Euraldius's Black Templars counting as Blood Angels.

Libby, Unleash Rage, FotDark
100
Reclusiarch
130
6 Assault Terminators, 2 Thammers
250
LRC, MM, Searchlight
261
5 Assault Terminators, 2 Thammers
210
LRC, MM, Searchlight
261
Sanguinary Priest, Corbulo, Sanguinary Priest, JP
230
Assault Squad, Melta, Las/Plasback, Searchlight
166
Assault Squad, Melta, Las/Plasback, Searchlight
166
Assault Squad, 2 Melta, PF
225

1999

The Libby is going to be the Emperor's Champion. Unleash Rage shows that he's really really (x2) badass and FotDark shows that he's really really (x2) scary. =D

Sanguinary Priests are going to be "lesser" Chappies, their firey rhetoric inspiring their brothers to ignore all but the most grievous of injuries.

Everything else will be playing itself =D

Chaos has autocannons too. Too bad they suck.

2010-04-12T19:43:00.000-07:00

So as requested by someone in the last thread, a CSM list featuring 3 units of min Terms with Reapers. Oh boy. So to complement the borderline trolling, here's a CSM list that really wants to be a Guard one.

DP, MoN, Wings, WT
175
DP, MoN, Wings, WT
175
3 Terms, Reaper
115
3 Terms, Reaper
115
3 Terms, Reaper
115
5 PMs, 2 Melta, Rhino
170
5 PMs, 2 Melta, Rhino
170
5 PMs, 2 Melta, Rhino
170
5 PMs, 2 Melta, Rhino
170
7 Havocs, 4 Autocannons, Rhino
220
7 Havocs, 4 Autocannons, Rhino
220
7 Havocs, 4 Autocannons
185

2000

Whee! Wasn't that fun? =P

What next?

2010-04-04T14:20:00.000-07:00

OK, so I can't think of anything to really write about :P

Sue me.

So what do you guys want to see here?

Orminah's List Thread

2010-03-31T21:15:00.000-07:00

Orminah from Vassal wants some list help, so I'm going to be breaking down his list here.

Wolf Lord,Frost Blade, Runic Armor, Stormshield, Saga of the Bear
210
9 Grey Hunters, Melta, PF, Standard, MotW, Rhino, X Armor
240
10 Grey Hunters, Melta, PF, Standard, MotW, Rhino, X Armor
255
Land Speeder Typhoon
90
Land Speeder Typhoon
90
5 Longfangs, 4 MLs
115
1000
OK, So I like this list in general.

The Wolf Lord needs to get his ass out of that Rhino and onto a TWolf.

The GHunters are overburdened with upgrades. PFs are unecessary, so is Xarmor.

There aren't enough Long Fangs.

So:
Wolf Lord, Frost Blade, Sshield, Warrior Born, Twolf, Runic Armor, Wolf Tail Talisman
260
10 Grey Hunters, 2 Melta, Standard, MotW, Rhino
210
10 Grey Hunters, 2 Melta, Standard, MotW, Rhino
210
Typhoon
90
Typhoon
90
6 Longfangs, 5 MLs
140

1000

OK, so his list at 1500:

Wolf Lord, Frost Blade, Sshield, Bear
190
RP, Murderous, Stormcaller
100
5 Wolf Guard, 1 Terminator w/ Cyclone, 3 Combimelta/PF
210
8 Ghunters, Melta, PF, Standard, MotW, Rhino, Xarmor
225
8 Ghunters, Melta, PF, Standard, MotW, Rhino, Xarmor
225
8 Ghunters, Melta, PF, Standard, MotW, Rhino, Xarmor
225
Typhoon
90
5 Longfangs, 4 MLs
115
5 Longfangs, 4 MLs
115

1495

HQ turns from chump into SW Super Rape machine.

RP switches for useful powers to go with the Long Fangs. Chooser is awesome.

Ghunters drop the crappy upgrades.

Max out Long Fangs.

Wolf Lord, Frost Blade, Sshield, Warrior Born, Twolf, Runic Armor, Wolf Tail Talisman
260
RP, JotWW, Living Lightning, Chooser
100
10 Grey Hunters, 2 Melta, Standard, MotW, Rhino
210
10 Grey Hunters, 2 Melta, Standard, MotW, Rhino
210
10 Grey Hunters, 2 Melta, Standard, MotW, Rhino
210
Typhoon
90
6 Longfangs, 3 MLs, 2 HBs
140
6 Longfangs, 5 MLs
140
6 Longfangs, 5 MLs
140

1500

And finally at 2000:

Wolf Lord, Frost Blade, Runic Armor, Sshield, Bear
210
RP, Runic Armor, Hurricane, Stormcaller
120
Wolf Priest, Wolf Tail Talisman
105
5 Wolf Guard, Termie/Cyclone, 3 Combi/PF
210
8 Grey Hunters, Melta, PF, Standard, MotW, Rhino, Xarmor
225
8 Grey Hunters, Melta, PF, Standard, MotW, Rhino, Xarmor
225
8 Grey Hunters, Melta, PF, Standard, MotW, Rhino, Xarmor
225
Typhoon
90
Typhoon
90
Typhoon
90
6 Longfangs, 5 MLs
140
6 Longfangs, 5 MLs
140
6 Longfangs, 5 MLs
140

2010

Turns into:

Wolf Lord, Frost Blade, Sshield, Warrior Born, Twolf, Runic Armor, Wolf Tail Talisman, 2 Wolves
280
RP, JotWW, Living Lightning, Chooser
110
10 Grey Hunters, 2 Flamer, Standard, MotW, Rhino
205
10 Grey Hunters, 2 Melta, Standard, MotW, Rhino
210
10 Grey Hunters, 2 Melta, Standard, MotW, Rhino
210
10 Grey Hunters, 2 Melta, Standard, MotW, Rhino
210
2 MM/ HF Speeders
140
Typhoon
90
Typhoon
90
6 Longfangs, 5 MLs, Rhino
175
6 Longfangs, 5 MLs
140
6 Longfangs, 5 MLs
140

2000

The Priest can hijack the LF Rhino. Or it can just provide cover for the Wolf Lord. Whatever.

General things: the Wolf Guard aren't great outside of the 3 w/ combis build.
Wolf Lords do better on Twolves.
Wolf Priests do better on the shelf.

Yet more BA.

2010-03-29T14:15:00.000-07:00

So I really like this codex. It's cool. So another list Incoming! (e-cookie for easy reference).

Libby, Rage, Shield, Infernus Pistol
115
5 Assault Terms, 2 TH/SS
210
LRC, MM
260
2 Sanguinary Priests
100
Furioso Libby, Lance, Wings
175
Assault Squad, Melta, Las/Plas Razor
165
Assault Squad, Melta, Las/Plas Razor
165
Assault Squad, Melta, Las/Plas Razor
165
Baal Pred
115
Baal Pred
115
7 Vanguard, Sgt PF, Infernus Pistol, PW, SS
215
Stormraven, MM
200

2000

Vanguard and Terms can go in either the LRC or the Raven. Libby can go with either.

I would have another Terminator squad in place of the Vanguard...but the Raven is nowhere near as survivable as a Raider.

So I'm dropping it down the target list by putting Vanguard in it-it's where they'll usually go. Here's why Vanguard:

Grenades. They can reliably charge something in cover without needing the Frag Launchers on the Crusader for help.
Slots. I want a Furioso Libby for more hood coverage. I need Sanguinary Priests to make my dedicated assault troops awesome. 1 Assault Term squad and...oops, out of slots.
Furious Charge. Khorne Berzerkers? Anyone? But with more "ignore armor save" weaponry and the ability to pop transports.

Now why not Death Company? If the single Raven gets lit up like a Christmas tree (though you can mitigate this) I don't want a bunch of my army drooling towards a nearby Land Speeder.

Raider Rush BA

2010-03-26T08:52:00.000-07:00

Another BA list, Raider Rush style:

Libby, Unleash Rage, Sword
100
Reclusiarch, Infernus Pistol
145
5 Assault Terminators, 2 Thammers
210
LRC, MM
260
5 Assault Terminators, 2 Thammers
210
LRC, MM
260
Sanguinary Priest
50
Sanguinary Priest
50
Assault Squad, Melta, Las/Plasback
165
Assault Squad, Melta, Las/Plasback
165
Combi-Pred
135

1750

Libby rides with 1 squad of Terms, Reclusiarch with the other. Sanguinary Priest in each for FC and FNP.

They're like BT assault Terms. For cheaper. With better SShields. And FNP.

Check it out!

2010-03-25T20:14:00.000-07:00

So Ragnar (or Gorgon_Locke as he's going by these days) started doin' up his Orks. Check them out at http://buildingbadmoons.blogspot.com/

More Blood Angels

2010-03-25T16:28:00.000-07:00

And this time, a tourney list.

Libby, Lance, Shield
100
Assault Squad, Melta, Razorback, Las/Plas, Searchlight
166
Assault Squad, Melta, Razorback, Las/Plas, Searchlight
166
Assault Squad, Melta, Razorback, Las/Plas, Searchlight
166
Assault Squad, Melta, Razorback, Las/Plas, Searchlight
166
Assault Squad, Melta, Razorback, Las/Plas, Searchlight
166
Assault Squad, Melta, Razorback, Las/Plas, Searchlight
166
Baal Pred, Searchlight
116
Baal Pred, Searchlight
116
Baal Pred, Searchlight
116
Combi-Pred, Searchlight
136
Combi-Pred
135
Combi-Pred
135

1850

In Max-OD style, a BA list of shooty, efficient death.

Every vehicle in the list is Fast.

Libby is a Hood and a 5+ cover for your Razorbacks and nearby vehicles.

In DoW, you can even deploy a Razor forward for Searchlight duty and because it's Fast, it'll actually light what you need.

Anti-Horde? Well even if you didn't have enough firepower to whittle hordes (which you do) you have 30 Assault Marines.

Readership

2010-03-25T14:12:00.000-07:00

So I want to see how many readers I have. Since I don't know some cool techy way to do this, just post in this thread if you read this at least semi-regularly. I'll post more if I get a bunch of people.

New Blood Angels, or WTF Kinda Army is that?

2010-03-25T12:46:00.000-07:00

OK, so I now have the new Blood Angels codex (unlike Nids, Torrent got it really fast).

And my first list out of BA is a 2000 point weird one. Because I can. And because it has a really cool thematic side.

The Army:

The Sanguinor
275
Astorath
220
Furioso Libby, Wings, Lance, Searchlight
176
Furioso Libby, Wings, Lance, Searchlight
176
7 Death Company, Infernus Pistol
155
5 Death Company, Infernus Pistol, Lemartes
265
Assault Squad, Melta, Razorback, Las/Plas
165
Assault Squad, Melta, Razorback, Las/Plas
165
Stormraven, TL MM, Searchlight
201
Stormraven, TL MM, Searchlight
201

1999

Sanguinor is a beast and a buff. 5 attack DC on the charge? Yes please.

Astorath unlocks multiple DC squads, which I need to fill the Stormravens. He also buffs my Assault squads (1/2 Red Thirst chance vs. 1/6).

Now the DC-Astorath rides with the squad of 7, Sanguinor with the 5+ Lemartes.

And here's the synergy-with Astorath in one squad and Lemartes and the Sanguinor in the other, you have rerolling to hit and to wound WS5 S5 I5 5 attack DC on the charge. Which you will be getting out of the Stormravens. Infernus pistols mean you demech and then charge.

The Libby Furiosos provide Hood cover and tank-popping ability. Drop next to the trailer park and let the Lances fly!

And if that wasn't enough AT for your DC to get in there, you have the Stormravens. Move 6" and shoot everything, move 12 and fire TLMM or TLAC depending on the target. And then the dread jumps out and Lances, the DC jump out and shoot Infernus Pistols, and then you charge and kill just about anything.

Assault squads are there to hold objectives. 12" move + Las or TL plas isn't half bad either.

Now you will lose if you get Alpha Struck when you're running this. You will lose very badly. Otherwise, have fun rolling just about anything.

EDIT-And Sanguinor isn't an IC. Oops. Swap for Dante :)

EDIT 2-Updated list:
Dante
225
Astorath
220
Furioso Libby, Wings, Lance
175
Furioso Libby, Wings, Lance
175
8 Death Company, Infernus Pistol, Power Weapon
190
6 Death Company, Infernus Pistol, Lemartes
285
Assault Squad, Melta, Razorback, Las/Plas
165
Assault Squad, Melta, Razorback, Las/Plas
165
Stormraven, TL MM
200
Stormraven, TL MM
200

2000

Astorath with the 8 man PW, Dante with the 6 + Lemartes. Dante's BS 5 Infernus Pistol also helps demech, and reducing enemy Libbys to 1 wound, I 3, WS 3, and 1 attack is fun :)

Batrep-New CSM vs Mech Eldar

2010-03-18T14:19:00.000-07:00

So I played a game with Yani on Vassal.

I used my new CSM list (see below) against some mech Eldar.

Seer, RoW, Doom, Guide, Stones
Autarch, Fusion Gun
8 Dragons, Exarch, Breath, Serpent, Scatter Laser, Stones
5 Dragons, Serpent, Scatter Laser, Stones
10 DA, Bladestorm, Dual Shuri, Serpent, EML, Stones
10 DA, Bladestorm, Dual Shuri, Serpent, EML, Stones
10 Storm Guardians, 2 Flamers, Warlock, Spear, Destructor, Serpent, EML, Stones
3 Jetbikes, Shuricannon
Prism
Prism
3 War Walkers, Scatter Lasers

Now I've never been fantastic at fighting mech Eldar. Maybe it was the brutal tabling I got back in 4th from one when I was 15 and scrubby, but I always cringe when I see them across the table.

We roll up 5 objectives, Pitched Battle. I deploy centrally, going for the objectives in the middle.

He refuses a flank and holes up in a corner, bikes in reserve. I know he won’t be staying still long, though. He fails to seize and off we go.

None of my dreads go nuts. My DPs dash up as fast as possible and my Rhinos, Oblits and Dreads shuffle forwards. One Rhino immobilizes itself on terrain and the rest pop smoke. Shooting sees me kill a Walker and shake the other two, as well as blowing the Scatter Laser off of the 5-man Dragon Serpent.

His turn, he dooms the DP nearer to him and scoots the five Dragons over to it, immobilizing his Serpent. The War Walkers move up and I don’t WT because RoW is up. The rest of his stuff shuffles around, except for the Storm Guardians which peel out for my flank and the 8 dragons which move up to the center. The Dragons hop out and lay meltas into the DP, putting 2 wounds on him. A Prism lights up an Oblit squad, killing 1. The other Prism drops another wound on the DP. The War Walkers charge the DP and kill it in exchange for 1. Bleh.

My turn again, I try to WT, only to perils and take a wound. I move up and pour fire into 2 Serpents with my entire army, including surprisingly sane dreads. I only stun them. A PM squad hops out and breaks the Dragons. They fall back and won’t stop running. The DP attempts to get to the Walker and fails with a 2,2,3. He starts sympathizing with my dice, I start saying that cold dice happen (especially on Vassal) and say go.

His bikes come on, and he dooms the 2 Oblits and Guides a Prism. His other dragons and Storm Guardians zoom up and pile out near my Doomed Oblits and immobilized Rhino. A couple other things shuffle, but a Prism in his back stays still. The Storms lay into the Oblits and only cause 1 wound. The dragons whiff and only kill one out of the other Oblit squad. The Guided Prism kills 2 PMs, the other kills 1.

I joke that we can’t seem to shoot each other.

His last War Walker assaults my DP. The DP whiffs, so does the Walker.

My turn, one dread goes Fire Frenzy. Everything else moves to take out his stuff on my flank. The lone PM leaps back in his Rhino and heads for an objective. The PMs on my home objective jump out near the Dragons.

My dice get hot in the shooting phase, killing both Serpents near me and a Prism. Assault sees me wipe the Storm Guardians with Oblits. The PMs charge the dragons, kill one, and stay locked. The DP and WW whiff at each other again.

His turn and both Doom and Guide fail to go off, though Ghosthelm saves his Seer. He jumps out a DA unit to keep the objective the lone PM’s Rhino is on and moves the bikes that way too. His remaining Prism lines up on that Rhino as well. The Autarch moves up near my Oblits and hops out. His bikes blow up the Rhino, killing 3 DA in the process. The DA Bladestorm the PM, killing him (only 1 wound got through, though-I love PMs). His Prism and Autarch shoot my wounded Oblits and kill one. An EML stuns a Dreadnought.

The DP and Walker whiff more, the Dragons and PMs kill one each.

My turn, a dread goes rage-y and heads for the Dragons, not making it even with a 5" run. Shooting pops another Serpent and wipes a DA squad off the board. An Oblit charges the other. The Dragons in combat with the PMs lose 1 and flee and he's up.

He dooms the Oblit in combat and Guides the fleeing Dragons. His Autarch heads for one of my objectives. The bikes jump onto his objective. His last Prism heads for my Rhino on the far objective, turboing in. His Serpent does the same to another objective. Shooting sees the bikes take a wound off the Prince before the Dragons vaporize it.

The Autarch charges the PMs and takes a wound for his trouble.

My turn, all my dreads rage. Shooting can’t down the Prism or Serpent, but 2 crazy dreads kill the Serpent in assault. The Autarch takes another wound and the Oblit smooshes a DA. A crazed Dread charges the Dragons and explodes for trying.

He’s contesting 1 of my objectives, but I’ll have him if we go to 6. It’s a draw as we go into the bottom of 5.

He scoots his prism around my objective and moves his seer to attack the PMs. The Dragons pour fire into the oblits near them and only kill one, same with the Prism. The Farseer charges the PMs and takes 2 wounds for his trouble. The PMs kill the Autarch.

My turn the prism drops to meltas. Assault sees the Farseer die and me get a second objective on consolidate. He can’t beat that (his bikes are on one and he can't contest with anything else), so that’s game.

Post-Game thoughts:
The DPs did exactly what they were supposed to, soak up fire, do some damage, and die. They pretty much kept all of those S6 War Walker shots out of the game.

I was impressed with the Dreads. Even when they went crazy the did useful stuff. The INAT ruling (which makes sense) makes them playable.

PMs didn't need PFs really. More testing to follow.

CSM Redo

2010-03-17T14:33:00.000-07:00

So I've found over the course of...lots...of games that my Raider Rush CSM can't demech my opponents fast enough. This obviously leads to quite a few problems when I need to, say, kill something fast-which happens quite a bit.

So with that in mind, here's a different list that I'm going to be playtesting:

DP, MoN, Wings, WT
175
DP, MoN, Wings, WT
175
Dread, MM, HF
105
Dread, MM, HF
105
Dread, MM, HF
105
5 PM, 2 Melta, Rhino, Combi
170
5 PM, 2 Melta, Rhino, Combi
170
5 PM, 2 Melta, Rhino
160
5 PM, 2 Melta, Rhino
160
3 Oblits
225
3 Oblits
225
3 Oblits
225

2000

No Lash b/c Lash Princes have been dying too fast for my tastes lately =P
Lashes in Rhinos would just get PMs lit up really fast.

Dreads, dreads, dreads. I want them to work-I really do-but if they don't, they're swapping for Termicides. If they do, mobile multi-meltas will work nicely.

Min PM units are another "new" thing. They're just there for melta support.

And 9 Oblits...because I can =D

Mech Orks

2010-02-26T10:03:00.000-08:00

So with the new (and correct, finally :P ) Deff Rolla ruling, I redesigned my friend Ragnar's Ork list. It's now:

Ghazghkull
225
Mek, KFF
85
15 Burnas
225
Nob Biker Unit:
Nob, Bike, Painboy, Cybork
80
Nob, Bike, PK, Cybork, Waagh! Banner
90
Nob, Bike, PK, Shoota/Skorcha, Cybork
80
Nob, Bike, Cybork, Ammo Runt
53
Nob, Bike, Shoota/Skorcha, Cybork
55
Stikkbombs
5
17 Boyz, Nob, PK
139
11 Boyz, Nob, PK, Trukk, Red, Plank, Ram
151
11 Boyz, Nob, PK, Trukk, Red, Plank, Ram
151
11 Boyz, Nob, PK, Trukk, Red, Plank, Ram
151
Battlewagon, Red, Plank, Klaw, Big Shoota, Rolla
130
Battlewagon, Red, Plank, Klaw, Big Shoota, Rolla
130

1750

Ghaz rides with the Burnas, the Mek goes with the Boyz.

The Nob Bikerz are there to do what they do best-munch through half an army or soak up equivalent firepower. They're also good for late-game objective grabs. Just need to stay out of LoS of PBSs :P

Battlewagons run over things, boyz hop out, kill things. Simple.

What is Comp?

2010-02-04T10:34:00.000-08:00

Comp, usually short for composition, is one of the most polarizing terms in competitive 40K play and environments. Comp is usually taken to signify elements of theme (how tightly the army conforms to the “background”). The “powergamer” stereotypically despises the whole idea of “composition” because of the simple fact that armies that do not tightly conform to the “background” materials are often more powerful in the game. The “casual gamer” brings a themed army that tightly conforms to the “background” materials, but is often less powerful.

Now comp taken as “theme” has some horrible problems. The most obvious of these problems is the simple fact that people’s views on how tightly a certain army build conforms to the “background” material differ. Therefore, consistency in scoring is a practical impossibility. Furthermore, two opponents whose views differ will often lead to unhappiness with the score given by said opponent. For example, a player running a Raider Rush build might play someone who believes that 2 Land Raiders in a non-Apoc game does not line up with the “background”. The second player will give the other player an artificially low score because of their beliefs. This kind of inconsistency is detrimental to competitive play because it introduces a variable non-dependent upon player ability into an environment that is supposed to test player ability.

Another problem with comp as theme is the timing of its scoring. Most tournaments with comp scoring have players score their opponent’s army after the game finishes. The composition and sportsmanship scores are often kept secret to the opponent, the idea being that people will be less inclined to judge others honestly if they have to give their opponent the news that they are an ass face-to-face. The problem here is sore losers. Someone who did not like the loss that the other player just handed them will often dramatically underscore their opponent’s comp.

A third problem with comp as theme is that it decreases the equivalency of high-level play. When players try to compensate for the beliefs of others by making a “softer” army (one that is easier to defeat, has more weaknesses, etc.), they are artificially limiting the tools that they would otherwise have to try for victory. If all the players make such armies, then the level of play decreases and the players who want to challenge themselves are unhappy because of these artificial limitations. If several people decide to ignore the comp score (seeing as how it is usually less than 10% of the overall score) and just bring the best armies they can, they’ll beat all the people who limited themselves. Those people will then be upset that the winners “didn’t play by the rules” and violated the social norm for a better outcome. Both of these are bad in an environment where competition and a striving for victory are supposed to be the motivation for players.
So comp as theme is a broken idea. It’s easily shown by the fact that comp is such a highly contended topic.

Then what should comp be? Comp should be taken to be a scalar for the “competetiveness”, or ability to win in an all-comers environment of a particular army. If comp is to be player scored, it should be done before the game to prevent “sore loser syndrome”. A baseline army should be established before the event and players should be asked what they think about their opponent’s army. For example:

Given an all-comers environment, do you think that your opponent’s army is (pick one):
Way stronger than
Stronger than
About the same as
Weaker than
Far weaker than
the following:
…army list…
Points would then be assigned to each value and scoring would proceed.

Now player-scored comp scoring still has problems. If the two opponents know and do not like each other, scores will still be artificially low. Furthermore, players who are not very skilled at judging the relative power of two armies will assign incorrect, and often artificially low, scores. As another point, local gaming groups or teams of players can coordinate to lower the scores of players who are not part of the group or team.

What about judge-scored comp? Where one or multiple judges sit down with all the army lists before the event and assign comp scores? This has fewer problems than player-scored comp (no “sore-loser syndrome”). But all the other problems from above apply. A judge who dislikes a player can lower their scores. Judges are not omniscient and can make mistakes about relative power levels. And a group of local judges can decide to arbitrarily dock everyone they don’t know to give their buddies an advantage.

So comp contributing to overall score, while in theory a lovely balancer for high-level play, often turns out to be a nightmare in practice, leading to hurt feelings and a substandard event.

Then what place does comp have in high-level play? Some people argue that it has none. However, comp is very useful for setting initial pairings in tournaments. If pairing is random, a “powergamer” can run up against a “casual player” round 1 or round 2. This often produces a tabling and unhappiness on both sides. However, if comp is scored before the event and players with equivalent comp scores are paired up, then a higher level of equivalency of play will emerge. Furthermore, this minimizes the amount that scoring errors will contribute to the final overall scores.

So the use that comp has is pairings-and this fulfills the idea behind comp, to lend to an equivalence of play in competitive environments.

Boston Brawl

2010-02-03T19:19:00.000-08:00

Yeah, I haven't posted anything for a while. Maybe if the 2 people who read this blog commented some I'd have more to say :P

Anyway, I'm going to take a minute here and plug The Boston Brawl. It's a 2000 point 40K GT in Boston on May 15th and 16th. It's not on the circuit this year, but I'm going to be in attendance and it looks like it's going to be a cool event. So if you live in the NE and want to learn more, check it out at bostonbrawl.com

List Redo: Semi-Mech

2010-01-17T11:14:00.000-08:00

CCS, 4 Melta, Chimera, Hull HF
PBS, 4 Extra, Chimera, Hull HF
Platoon 1:
PCS, 4 Flamer, Chimera, Hull HF
Infantry Squad, Lascannon, Flamer, Chimera, Hull HF
Infantry Squad, Lascannon, Chimera, Hull HF
Platoon 2:
PCS, 4 Flamer, Chimera, Hull HF
Infantry Squad, Comissar, Krak Grenades, Lascannon
Infantry Squad, Krak Grenades, Lascannon
Infantry Squad, Krak Grenades, Lascannon
Vendetta
Vendetta
Vendetta
Manticore
Manticore

1750

So the big change here is the removal of Hydras and the addition of a Vendetta.

Why did I change? I felt like there wasn't enough long range AP 2 weaponry. I could have gone with a Plasmacutioner, but that would have drastically cut down on my anti-transport ability. So instead, I took the Vendetta and added Lascannons to my infantry squads. This gives me 12 TL Lascannons (with Bring it Down!) and 2 normal ones. With this many las, I should be able to take out about a Tervigon or Tyrannofex and a half a turn, or 2-3 transports just from Las. It also helps against broadsides and lets me lock down opposing AV spam.

A Weird List

2010-01-15T14:25:00.000-08:00

OK, so I promised something weird last time, so here it is:

CCS, 4 Melta, OotF, Astropath, Chimera, Hull HF
PBS, 3 Extra, Chimera, Hull HF
Vet squad, 3 Plasma, Chimera, Hull HF
Vet squad, 3 Plasma, Chimera, Hull HF
Vet squad, 3 Plasma, Chimera, Hull HF
Vendetta, HBs
Vendetta, HBs
Vendetta
Deathstrike
Deathstrike
Deathstrike

1750

WTF, right?

Well, with a 1/2 chance to launch a Deathstike turn 1 and a basically guaranteed launch turn 2, that huge S10 Ap1 blast can do something. Vendettas help open Rhinos and kill MCs, Deathstrikes do anti-whatever, Vets for Terms and MCs, and PBS to take things off the board.

On the CCS the OotF will hold down the amount of stuff shooting at Deathstrikes and the Astropath helps if I have to reserve up.

Guard Planning-Semi-Mech

2010-01-14T17:22:00.000-08:00

OK, so let the Guard planning continue! One of the things that doesn't get talked about at all is semi-mech. Mech is king of 5th, true, but semi-mech is the secret god. It's in things like Lash/PM/Oblit (Oblit's aren't in transports), Seer Council (Jetlocks), and SW lists (LF and Twolves unmeched).

So, a list:

CCS, 4 Melta, Chimera, Hull HF
PBS, 3 Extra, Chimera, Hull HF
Platoon 1:
PCS, 4 Flamer, Chimera, Hull HF
Infantry Squad, Autocannon, Chimera, Hull HF
Infantry Squad, Autocannon, Chimera, Hull HF
Platoon 2:
PCS, 4 Flamer, Chimera, Hull HF
Infantry Squad, Comissar, Krak Grenades
Infantry Squad, Krak Grenades
Infantry Squad, Krak Grenades
Vendetta
Vendetta
3xHydra
Manticore
Manticore

1750

CCS, Hydras and Manticore as usual.

PBS for all kinds of goodness there.

Vendettas for the las.

Now for the different stuff.

PCS with 4 Flamer, Chimera: simple unit. Drive up, tank shock, jump out (if I had to go more than 6"), flambe. Repeat if possible. There will be situations where I'll want to put them in the Valks and outflank, but most of the time they'll go in their Chimeras.

Infantry Squad w/ Autocannon: another simple unit. Step 1: sit on an objective. Step 2: Blast light vehicles. It's not TL (in the Chimera-they can Bring It Down! outside, though) and it's only got 2 shots, but it's just there to hold and harass.

Infantry Squads on foot: blob attack! The now-infamous blob is here (and ready to take a FRFSRF!). Apart from the 90-odd shots of flashlight goodness the blob can output, it's a tarpit without equal. Nothing ruins a Hammernator squad's day like running into one of these, and Dreads and MC feel the same. Why do I have Kraks instead of PW? Well, if they get in with a Dread, PW won't help. With kraks, the blob can acually charge a Podnought or similar and take it down (slowly, but it's better than being there all game).

This list expands well to 1850 and 2000 as well. It's a contest between this and Mechvets. Next time, something weird just for the hell of it.

Guard Planning-Air Cav

2010-01-13T18:26:00.000-08:00

So last time I gave you a mechvet build I'm thinking about. Here's my air-cav list.

CCS, Astropath, 3 Meltas, Flamer
Marbo
10 Veterans, 3 Flamer
10 Veterans, 3 Flamer
10 Veterans, 3 Melta
10 Veterans, 3 Melta
10 Veterans, 3 Melta
2 Vendettas
2 Vendettas
2 Valkyries, Multiple Rocket Pods
Manticore
Manticore

1750

CCS is there to do the usual. Astropath helps if I have to go second. Marbo's in there because I had 65 points left over, and he's the best surprise demo charge in the game.

Flamer vets are in there to clear objectives, Melta vets for 1st turn tank clearance.

Vendettas are great-a 3 Las platform for 130 pts. That's a skimmer. With a transport capacity. Only downside are the huge friggin models.

Valks are objective clearers and anti-horde. They can move 6" and still fire it all, which is great.

Manticores are in there because they go great with everything.

So now what?

2010-01-12T18:36:00.000-08:00

Well, the Tyranid info keeps piling in-and what it seems to be showing is that Nids will ultimately be a mid-level codex. I guess no-mech armies can't work in 5th after all.

So that being the case, it's off to Guard we go. Now what I desperately want to do for Guard is to use all historical models and make an army themed on the modern US Army. Unfortunately, if I ever want to play in GW sanctioned events, I couldn't use the models. So that's out, unfortunately.

Well, on to lists:

CCS, 4 Melta, Chimera, Hull HF
CCS, 4 Melta, Chimera, Hull HF
PBS, 2 Extra Psykers, Chimera, Hull HF
Vets, 3 Plasma, Chimera, Hull HF
Vets, 3 Plasma, Chimera, Hull HF
Vets, 3 Plasma, Chimera, Hull HF
Banewolf, Hull HF, Smoke
Banewolf, Hull HF, Smoke
3 Hydras
Manticore
Manticore

1750

Pretty much your bog standard Mechvets list and basically a copy-paste of what Shep brought to WWShootout. At this points level, this is the definitive version of the build-I can't improve on this in any way (read-it all tweaks back to this).

CSSs are for close-up anti-heavy-armor and orders (last turn Move, Move, Move onto objectives, plasmavet Bring It Down!).

PBS is a great option IMO. Are there games where it'll just sit and Soulstorm? Yes, but a S6 blast that ignores MEQ armor half the time has its uses. And then there are the games where Weaken Resolve will work. WR screws Nob Bikerz and TWolves into the ground, is a great way to dislodge hard-to-kill firebase units like Oblit squads, and helps prevent charges.

Plasmavets. Why Plasmavets? Well, do you really need 9 more meltas in here? No. Between the CCSs and Manticores, Raiders won't stick around for long. Plasmavets are also great against the crop of bandwagon nid players that'll emerge, and since BA are next, plasma>melta against a jump infantry list (if they keep it that way and don't have them riding something dumb like giant bleeding angel ghost vampires). Plasma also works well against Twolves and Termies. It can also do anti-AV 12 pretty well. 3 S7 shots at 24" isn't bad to kill Rhinos.

Banewolves are awesome. Move 12" and drop 2 templates, one of which wounds on 2s and ignores MEQ armor? Awesome.

Hydras are the most efficient autocannon platforms in the game. 12 TL autocannon shots is basically a guarenteed kill on whatever light tank you target, and they can do anti-MC and anti-horde in a pinch. I left HBolters on because they synergize better with the Hydra's role. If you're way in the back and lose your autocannons, do you want to drive all the way up to midfield to roast something? I didn't think so.

Manticores-well, what's not to love about D3 S10 blasts? Anti-everything, really, from Twolves to horde to heavy armor. The only thing they don't do great is terminators, which they can still manage by piling on wounds.

Guest Posts

2010-01-07T19:34:00.001-08:00

I just changed the settings so everyone can comment. Thanks, Minigun762.

C:CSM's Place In the Metagame

2010-01-02T15:34:00.000-08:00

OK, first off, yes, I know that it's been a monthish. I've been enjoying my winter break by not doing anything besides sitting on my ass and playing with my 360.

So I thought I'd come back with something decently cool, an article about Codex: Chaos Space Marines' place in the current metagame.

Once upon a 4th edition, CSM were the shit. Lash was stomping everyone, PMs were unkillable, and Oblits were dropping Plasma Cannon templates on all those walking Marines. So what changed? On the surface, not much. CSM still place very highly in tournaments.

Well, I don't think that this is going to last much longer. CSM are slipping in the meta, and here are the reasons why.

1) Lack of good builds: if you run into CSM at a competetive tournament, it's almost definitely Lash. And compared to Lash, the other builds are somewhat gimped in an all-comers environment. Chaoszilla and Raider Rush both have problems with Mech, and guess what rules 5th? Books like Guard, Wolves, and even Marines have multiple high level builds, and Nids look like they will.

2) Dependency on Psychic Powers: in either Lash or Warptime, CSM relies on a DP's psychic power to be a real force multiplier. This worked when Psyhoods and RoW were everything that countered them. Now with things like Deathleaper's LD reducing ability and SuperSWHoods, even getting the power off is tricky. And the powers we have are one-dimensional and weak compared to some of the newer ones (looking at you, Murderous Hurricane/PBS).

3) No Psychic Defense: so any tourney army is used to having to muddle through enemy psychic defense to get its powers off. And then it runs into CSM. No psychic defense-none. So things like PBS's, Rune Priests, and GoI libbys can just go nuts on CSM.

4) Dependance on DPs: DPs are the only viable CSM HQ, and this was good when no one could kill a DP in a turn with aanything less than their entire army. And now we have IG that can toss a DP back into the Warp with a Plasmavet squad or two, SWs that can kill it with one Long Fang squad, and soon Nids with enough poison attacks that every DP will fail saves fast. Loyalists have Typhoon squadrons, Orks have lootas, etc.

5) Inability to open transports fast enough: and this is where CSM really takes it up the ass. 3 Oblit squads should open about 1.5 transports/turn. This was good enough, back when people didn't field 10+ things with an armor value on a regular basis. Termicide's good for one each, but Oblits do less and less each turn.

6) Relative weakening of troops: With GHnters and Vets having knocked CSM out of the "Best Troops" slot and Tyranids able to take 20 Gaunts and manufacture the rest (all with poison and FNP), the dominance of CSM troops is over.

So like Tau, CSM will soon be forced to sit back and wait for a new codex. In January, I'm going to be shelving mine and doing some Nids or Guard. I'll be keeping up with CSM, however, and I'm still going to be commenting on them/writing about them if something piques my interest.

Raider Rush

2009-12-11T16:28:00.000-08:00

OK, so finals are over, I've got a month off school, and I'm sitting in my dorm room alone on a Friday night blogging about 40K eating Starbursts. How the hell do I have a girlfriend?

Anyway: my thoughts on the third of the top CSM builds, Raider Rush. I personally play Raider Rush CSM because it suits my playstyle well. The basic idea is to take a couple Land Raiders, fill them up with Berzerkers, and just mug your enemy.

So what units do you need?

Daemon Prince: Unlike the other top CSM builds, there's only really room in here for one DP. I run the MoS, WT variety when I have 5 pts to spend, otherwise it's just WT. The DP really has to pick its battles in this build because there's only one. Of course, Berzerkers really help with the heavy lifting.

Termicide: Mandatory. Absolutely mandatory. For turn 2 or 3 zerk charges, you need something to open transports, especially Raiders and the like. If a Raider is moving, it can't fire very well if at all, and there's no other ranged antitank in the build.

Zerks: You've heard my thoughts on Zerks before, and they really shine here. With the Raiders giving you the ability to pick your charges, you can always have FC on if you play it smart. Remember that the Raider has side doors that you can assault from as well.

CSM/PM: More scoring units and a followup wave. 1 unit at 1500, 2 at 1750. See my thoughts below on CSM vs. PM. I actually like CSM in Raider Rush, though, because if you need to hit a Termicide later in the game, you can do it off an IoCG.

Land Raider: The backbone of the list. Most people will tell you to just barrel forward 12" per turn and charge ASAP. This doesn't really work. You can afford to take a turn and open transports with lascannons, then move forward as Termicide drops and charge the disembarked squads. Just don't expet the Raider to do it all-you either sit and shoot, move 6" and get a LC shot, or move 12" and assault.

That's Raider Rush. The build has trouble with a lot of common things, though, including Vulkan and just about every kind of Guard. Against an enemy that has to come to you or can't stop the Raiders in time, you'll win them all.

Chaoszilla

2009-12-09T11:53:00.001-08:00

OK, I'm in the middle of finals, so bear with me here if I don't make much sense at times.

The next CSM high level list I'm going to talk about is Chaoszilla. Chaoszilla is basically a Choas version of the archetypal "Nidzilla", but Chaoszilla can't take a ton of Monstrous Creatures. What CSM can do is take a lot of Walkers along with some of the best MCs in the game. What makes Chaoszilla work, as opposed to the Marine 6 dread list, is that CSM HQs complement Chaoszilla.

So what does the list look like? Well, to get the most out of Chaoszilla, you take 2 DPs, 3 Dreads, 3 Defilers, and fill your troops slots with your favorite choice.

Let's go a bit more in-depth with the choices and why each works.

Daemon Prince: Well, it's the best CSM HQ choice anyway, and it goes along really nicely with the list-the more hard targets you fling at your opponent the better. There are 2 choices here: the MoN WT Prince for just shredding anything you come across, and the Lash Prince for getting you into HtH faster and clumping for Defiler shots. Of the choices, I personally prefer the Nurgle/WT one in this build. Though the Lash Prince does some nice stuff, the WT prince tears up things like Dreadnoughts that would kill or cripple your dreadnought or Defiler.

Dreadnoughts: I know, I'm actually saying to take Dreadnoughts. WTF? Well, with so many other similar things on the field, it doesn't really matter as much if one goes nuts for a turn (and one should go some kind of crazy every turn). 2 DCCWs, point at enemy, go.

Troops: CSM/PM/Zerk. Zerk give a lift in HtH and anti-horde, PM give Meltas for anti-LR duty and the other advantages of PMs (blights, T5, etc), and CSM are good all-rounders, with Meltas.

Defilers: Defilers should have 2 extra DCCWs. Basically, either shoot the battlecannon or fleet every turn. One you hit something, 6 S10 attacks should win you the combat. Just make sure that you don't fight something I4 or higher that can kill you before you swing.

Chaoszilla has some tougher matchups. No termicide basically means dealing with LRs in HtH, giving the contents a turn to react. Hordes can tarpit a dread or defiler for a long time. To keep the initiative, run stuff in packs and double-team enemy targets.

Raider Rush is next time.

Chaos Marines: Is that all there is?

2009-12-06T14:58:00.000-08:00

OK, so I gave Khurdur over at B&C some advice on his CSM list and he posted back:

is that all there is to chaos space marines- daemon princes, berzerkers, plague marines and as many obliterators you can fit?

My immediate thought was that he had forgotten Termicide, but then I started thinking about why the answer to his question was basically yes. Let's look at the roles each of these fills in a CSM army and why each outperforms the competition.

Daemon Princes: There's really one choice that makes a top level CSM build work here, and it's the Lash Prince. One of the main functions of any DP in a top level CSM build is to jack PM or Zerk squads out of long meatgrinder combats, and the Lash Prince seems to lose out to its competition, the MoN Warptime Prince, in this slot. I'll explain why it doesn't in a sec, but the real reason that the Lash Prince is superior is its synergystic effect on the whole list.

Yes, the much maligned CHEEZE!! Uberpower Fzorgle HURRR itself-Lash of Submission. Lash provides three main functions-grouping squads for blast templates, controlling enemy assault specialists, and dragging stuff into multicharge range for a squad of zerks. Lash's power is such that it's why the Lash Prince actually outperforms the MoN Prince in the "jack out of combat" role-fewer things make it into combat with increased efficiency Obliterator Plasma Cannons from grouping, and that large boy mob that'd bog a PM squad down for the rest of the game can be shoved back and Rhino blocked until you can deal with it. Hence, combats go faster even before the Prince joins in.

Now why Daemon Prince over Chaos Lord or Sorcerer? Well, the Lord can't have Warptime and is MUCH weaker in general (no eternal warrior, T4 base), so he can't match up in survivability or HtH power. Furthermore, an infantry-mashing lord with MoK, Claws, Combi, and Wings is 5 points more than the DP without the synergy boost to the rest of the list. An MoN, Wings, Daemon Weapon, and Combi Lord is even worse in terms of the points gap.

The Sorcerer isn't much better. A Lash/Wings Sorcerer, while he can hide in a Rhino, can only fire safely if his ride moves less than 6". And once he's out in the open, without eternal warrior, both he (and his attendant Plague Marine squad) are going to be atomised. So when the Sorcerer dies, you lose a Rhino for blocking/tank shocking off objectives, your Lash, your reasonably killy HQ, 2 meltas, a Powerfist, and a scoring unit. As opposed to losing just a Lash and a pretty killy HQ when the Prince goes under.

Plague Marines: Plague Marines really compete mainly with the amazing basic Chaos Space Marines for space in your army. So what do the PMs do better? Well, the PMs have a huge survivability advantage in the form of T5, FNP, and blight grenades. A squad of 7 PMs will survive more small arms (non armor ignoring) fire than 10 CSM, and if they get hit by something that wipes them, you can be pretty certain it would have wiped the CSM as well. What PMs do for a top level CSM list is tie down elements of the opposing army. If you have a squad riding around in your face popping off Melta at you, are you going to shoot/charge them or focus on the Obliterators? The choice gives your opponent both the opportunity to make a mistake and to tie up one of his units for a long time. While the PMs are grinding through combat (which they'll win, with a well-timed DP assist, against almost any other unit in the game), the other elements of the list can take care of the scary units in an opponent's army.

Khorne Berzerkers: Berzerkers are great in and of themselves: a scoring unit that'll beat the crap out of other army's assault specialists. They compete with Possessed (unreliable and still worse if they don't get Furious Charge or Power Weapons) and big HtH termie squads (that need a Land Raider to even see HtH), so they're our best assault unit. Are they really needed in a top level CSM list, though?

Maybe. What Berzerkers provide is an uber jack out of combat. Need that PM squad back NEXT TURN? Berzerkers. The other thing Berzerkers can do is help with enemy assault units. If there's something on the other side of the table that can reliably beat through PMs, hit it with the Zerks. If they don't kill it, they'll at least weaken it significantly. They'll also chew straight through hordes. But are they vital when you already have DPs to jack you out, Lash for assault control, and Oblits+Lash for anti-horde? Not vital, but they can be nice to have.

Obliterators: Obliterators are a godsend, and are what really kicks this list up to top tables. A 2+/5++ and 2 wounds each mean that in cover, these guys aren't going anywhere fast. A wide variety of weapons mean that Oblits can do it all and do it well. Lascannons can open transports for lashing the contents, plasma cannons can rip through anything from Terminators to Boyz after it's been clumped, TL plasma guns give them defense against DS/outflanking units, and TL meltas make the suicide-droppable. They compete with Defilers for Heavy slots and win because Defiler's can't do anti-transport or anti-terminator. Furthermore, you'll never lose an Oblit squad to a single Heavy Bolter shooting them from behind (happened to a Defiler of mine, ugh).

Now the question is composition. How many Oblits do you take? Well, at 1500, 4 leaves you enough room for a workable rest of a list. At 1750, you can take 6. At 2000, 8. Anything higher is 9 and more troops.

Now is Lash/PM/Zerk/Oblit the best build out of CSM? Yes. It has the few bad matchups and will tear through armies like Orks really effectively. There are two other builds that work pretty well out of CSM, though, and so my next two posts will talk about Chaoszilla and Raider Rush respectively.

Chaos Daemons

2009-12-05T22:27:00.000-08:00

So I ran mono-Tzeentch, after some playtesting, once at a tourney a couple years back (just after the codex dropped). It was awful-I lost two games and barely scraped a draw in the third. So, given that my CSM are nearly done and new Nids aren't dropping for a little while, I think I might take the time in between to fix my Daemons.

Now, there's balanced Daemon armies that can outfight just about anything in the game in HtH, there are wacky-ass Daemon builds like "Skarbrand's Bitches" or the Epidemius Tally List, and then there's mono-Tzeentch. Very little HtH power means that if you go mass horrors, you'll get multicharged right back to the Warp. Soul Grinders really don't help that much since the Lord of Change sucks and they'd be the only melta targets on the board. Furthermore, they can't really open trasports for flamer and horror anti-infantry goodness.

So taking that into consideration, my list for 1750 looks like this:

Fateweaver
333
3 Flamers
105
3 Flamers
105
3 Flamers
105
10 Horrors, Bolt, Changeling
200
6 Horrors, Bolt
122
5 Horrors, Bolt
105
5 Horrors, Bolt
105
DP, MoTZ, Bolt, Gaze, Iron Hide
190
DP, MoTZ, Bolt, Gaze, Iron Hide
190
DP, MoTZ, Bolt, Gaze, Iron Hide
190

1750

Fateweaver's almost madatory if I want to stay on the table. Horrors with saves better than Marine ones? Yes please. Flamers fry exposed infantry or can hold down heavy shooting by glancing tanks. The Changeling's awesome. The other Horror squads are designed to maybe pop a tank or fry a squad, get shot/charged, and evaporate, leaving me free to shoot next turn. The DPs are there to help open transports, fry MEQs with gaze, and do the heavy lifting in combat. Iron Hide is on because I really don't need them dying to small arms fire, and with Fateweaver the difference between 3+ and 4+ is a 14% increase in survivability. That's worth about 14% of the DP's points to me.

Something else to do...

2009-12-05T22:12:00.000-08:00

Because blogging about 40K is apparently a good thing, I have decided to pollute the internet with my random thoughts about 40K, hence, what you're reading.